Exclusive Interview with BRC-20 Founder Domo: The "Traitor" of Ethereum Closes Himself for 48 Hours, Rewriting Bitcoin History

Original interview from Isabel Foxen Duke

Compiled by｜Odaily Planet Daily Golem (@web3_golem)

Editor’s Note: In March 2023, Domo launched the BRC-20 token standard. Over the past two years, the Bitcoin ecosystem has fully experienced the ups and downs of the crypto industry, from being neglected and questioned to being embraced by the masses, and ultimately falling from a clamorous peak to obscurity. The emergence of BRC-20 is undoubtedly epoch-making for the Bitcoin ecosystem, but who still remains committed to the Bitcoin ecosystem and BRC-20 today?

On the occasion of the two-year anniversary of BRC-20, founder Domo, who has never accepted video interviews, gave his first interview on Isabel Foxen Duke's program, sharing his experiences in crypto, the story before and after the birth of BRC-20, his views on UniSat, and future development plans for BRC-20. Odaily Planet Daily has compiled and translated the original interview as follows, enjoy～

Worked in data analysis before entering the industry, NFT Summer made its first bucket of gold.

Host: I’m very glad you could come; this is your first video interview. Taking this opportunity, we want the audience to learn more about your story. I heard that before Ordinals and BRC-20, you didn’t really pay much attention to Bitcoin. Is that true? What were you doing before getting involved with the Ordinals protocol?**

Domo: Two years ago, I really didn't put most of my energy into Bitcoin. Like most people, it was the Ordinals protocol that brought me back to Bitcoin. Before that, Bitcoin was just fluctuating in my account, but I wasn't actually doing anything.

I'm relatively late to crypto, having only started my crypto journey in 2019, but I'm still not very involved, mostly learning about crypto through Reddit and YouTube. The real shift happened in the summer of 2020, when I was working on data science, and I discovered DeFi innovation on Ethereum, specifically projects like Uniswap.

There is very clean data on-chain, and I don’t even need to spend hours processing it to analyze it. So, the first thing I did was to fetch Ethereum data for analysis and built a Telegram bot to track on-chain traders, and time has proven that they were the most profitable group during the DeFi summer.

Later, I invested all of my monthly salary into Bitcoin and Ethereum, but in reality, they nearly drove me to bankruptcy, so I realized that perhaps there were opportunities only in the native crypto space. Then around January-February 2021, I discovered some particularly useful NFT Discords, and I utilized my on-chain data skills to capture a lot of Alpha during the market frenzy of NFT Summer, so in 2021, my financial performance was excellent and I had a great time.

But I was still looking for a way to join this industry full-time. Until November 2021, I met someone in an NFT Discord who was working for a large crypto payment company, and then I joined their company and led the team's on-chain data analysis work for the next few years until I released the BRC-20 protocol.

The Birth of BRC-20: Bitcoin punks and .stas domains provided great inspiration

Host: Do you remember when you first heard about Ordinals?

Domo: I can't remember the exact time, but I probably first saw it in January 2023; however, I didn't do anything about it at the time. It wasn't until I saw it again in February that I realized it was no longer just an experimental thing being toyed with by a small group of people in a basement.

Early Ordinals collectibles also played an important role in the birth of BRC-20. For example, Bitcoin punks were actually the first to invent "Fair launch" on Bitcoin, as we had no way to distribute it through smart contracts.

Then the .stas domain was born, bringing Jason format data to the public and into the Bitcoin mempool. When I opened my computer at work and discovered it, I felt it was simply amazing; we have taken another step forward. The Ordinals protocol is no longer just an art protocol; it can also use Bitcoin as a data availability layer.

The infrastructure is right in front of us and you can do what you want. So I wondered if there was something else we could do. From that moment on, I felt that the Ordinals protocol was like a gateway to the availability of Bitcoin data, easily accessible to most users, regardless of technical ability or background.

Host: Before creating the BRC-20 protocol, did you brainstorm this protocol with others? Or did you participate in any community discussions?

Domo: After seeing the .sats domain used in JSON format on the chain, I also saw a blogger called "redphone" post a tweet. He collaborated with Delphi Ventures to release a pseudo-specification. I believe his design will succeed, but it lacks a few key elements; however, it is still inspiring.

Later, I locked myself in a room for two days and then created the BRC-20 protocol, but a large part of the credit still goes to redphone**.** In the following days, I established a start date and an indexer in terms of data, but it was the worst indexer ever, breaking down just one hour after launch. However, it at least proved that this method is indeed feasible.

It took me a while to understand two things: first, the layered design of the balance, including the available balance and the transferable balance. The second is how to prove that you own this thing? Because in reality, anyone can engrave an inscription and transfer it to themselves, which also means anyone can steal anyone else's balance. Therefore, I formulated a specification that should initially include 4 functions (deployment, minting, transferring, and trading).

The trading function was initially not launched because, considering the situation at the time, I thought it was adding unnecessary complexity, and this issue could be addressed later. However, I believe this omission was necessary, and one of the biggest lessons I learned from this experience is to keep it simple, which I think is a key decision.

Host: So you launched this token standard and deployed the first inscription in history, then posted it on Twitter and started to get a lot of attention. What happened in the following week for you?

Domo: I initially deployed ordi as a test to prove whether this token standard was feasible. But in fact, someone used this protocol before I published the gitbook, so before I published the token standard, someone had already deployed another token. When I saw it, I wanted to publish this token standard as soon as possible.

An hour after the release of BRC-20, my friend DM'd me saying that the experiment was a failure, so I really didn't sleep well that night. But I still think ordi may have been minted out within 24 hours. They might be using an inscription minting tool or the Ordinals client itself. At that time, I also didn’t know exactly who created an indexer to check the balance by tracking ordi's transactions.

Host:** Why was BRC-20 able to spread so quickly that people started building tools for it about 16 hours after your tweet?**

Domo: I think the previous innovative attempts have caught the attention of the Ordinals core community, like the .sats domain name, so they will be interested when there is something new to try. Additionally, I believe some people have also recognized the business opportunity in engraving tools, which will become a cash cow as long as they can implement simple batch engravings. In summary, from a user's perspective, these are all factors of timing and location.

UniSat's Contribution to BRC-20

Host: When did UniSat get involved in the construction of BRC-20?

Domo: UniSat was originally an inscription tool, and they might have launched the indexer in early April 2023. However, I don't remember how I later got in touch with UniSat; perhaps I sent them a private message, or maybe they sent me one.

At that time, I received messages from many people, among which there were many scammers. They would say you should deploy ORDI into the Ethereum liquidity pool. What attracted me to UniSat is that they have developed relevant tools and have been tested in practice, indicating that they have a solid technical team behind them. The UniSat team comes from the BSV community, and in fact, most early builders and Ordinals players come from there. I believe the emergence of indexers has also triggered a second wave of OTC fever, because rather than blindly trusting, you can now verify through intermediaries whether you really received it.

Host: So, they are voluntarily participating in the construction, and there is no cooperation between you?

Domo: I was really too tired at that time, so I was willing to support anyone who volunteered to build. UniSat was the most involved and capable team at that time, and there were also various other teams that provided help in the early stages, such as Best In Slot. I am grateful for their assistance.

When establishing the indexer, I had discussions with UniSat, but I did not participate in the construction of the UniSat market. It wasn't until UniSat established the BRC-20 market at the end of April that we truly obtained good pricing data, which might have been the first time I really started paying attention to prices, as over-the-counter trading is usually very unreliable.

BRC-20 Feels the Pressure After Exploding in Popularity

Host: After the BRC-20 went viral, do you feel pressure?

Domo: Yes, it's very stressful. Even though we've built the indexer, there are still many voices on Twitter saying that it's wrong both technically and from a Bitcoin maximalist perspective.

Before I launched BRC-20, I was an "Ethereum person" and did not have the same connections in the Bitcoin community as I did in Ethereum. Frankly, I didn't know much about Bitcoin at that time. My view of the Bitcoin community was that it embodied the ideals proposed by Satoshi Nakamoto, including open access, freedom, and fairness. So I was thinking about how to mimic the principles of fairness, freedom, and openness in this experiment, which ultimately led me to make several decisions that I believe are an important factor in the success of the fair minting function.

But at that time, these negative comments had a significant impact on me. Some people would ask what I would improve if I were to recreate BRC-20. However, in my opinion, BRC-20 is a one-in-a-million success story, and adjusting any design variable back then could have changed the outcome. BRC-20 is indeed a very inefficient protocol, and we can improve it, but there are also some risks associated with blind improvements.

I am very glad that I did not follow many of those suggestions. We are taking a slow improvement approach because I believe that only practical ideas can improve the protocol in the long run, and acting hastily will only be a stopgap measure.

The exchange will not announce the launch of the inscription in advance.

Host: Before ORDI goes live on centralized exchanges like OKX, did you participate in the listing on centralized exchanges? Do you know what will happen next?**

Domo: In fact, I did not participate; apart from Gate, they sent me a private message in advance, but by the time I woke up, I found that it had already been listed. The only thing I can say may be some factors that contributed to the listing. From the perspective of exchanges listing coins, 2023 was a unique period; there wasn't much happening at the beginning of the year, and PEPE was just a flash in the pan. So BRC20 was the star of the market narrative at that time, and it was logical for these exchanges to list it.

Additionally, the majority of the tokens held by exchanges are Bitcoin. My assumption at the time was that if Bitcoin leaves their exchanges and engages in on-chain transactions on the UniSat market or other markets, it would create a liquidity bubble. To address this issue, exchanges can only list these assets and then build tools around them.

The Decentralized Path of BRC-20: The Future of BRC-20 Without Domo is a Good Thing, but Not Yet

Host: Although the indexer built by UniSat is mainstream, Best In Slot has also created an indexer. Could you share how Best In Slot is involved, what problems they are trying to solve, and how they are attempting to index BRC20 in a different way?

Domo: I met Best In Slot at a conference in Singapore in September 2023, and I might have seen them again in Miami; I don't remember the exact time, but we have been chatting for a while. They mentioned that they built an indexer, and the team has a strong technical background from Ethereum, and indexing is their specialty.

I am very glad that there is a super competitor interested in the BRC-20 index, because at that time there was a saying that BRC-20 was centralized, and we needed an alliance of multiple indexers. So later we had OPI, which is a more decentralized client that anyone can easily run.

Host: What impact does a major upgrade to the Ordinals protocol have on the BRC-20 indexer? How are you responding to it?

Domo: My primary concern is still security. In my view, some of the new upgrades do not improve the protocol and may pose risks to us. Ultimately, the lack of communication led to disputes among the indexers, which caused unrest, but UniSat made compromises. I appreciate everyone's cooperation; everyone agreed that any form of fork does not serve the best interests of the community, and then we found a solution that suits everyone's needs and interests.

Later, to avoid similar situations from happening again, we established the Layer 1 Foundation, whose best purpose is to create some governance rules so that we can handle these decisions in a smarter way in the future. UniSat and Best In Slot are the main maintainers of this organization, collaborating with each other.

I am very satisfied with such results; open source agreements should be like this. As time goes by, the founder's ideas may not necessarily be the best. Better technologies, more experience, and more people dedicated to the agreement joining are what make it healthy. I like this way of development; I feel more like a coordinator. In the future, Domo may no longer be part of BRC20, and I think that would be a good thing, but obviously, that is not the case right now.

BRC-20 Swap Module and Programmable Module

Host: You have been talking about two major upgrades to the protocol, the swap module and the programmable module, for the past 8 or 9 months. Could you share what these are?

Domo: The swap module can be traced back to the summer of 2023, when we realized that we were not trading these assets like fungible tokens, but rather more like NFTs. Any reasonable protocol would strive to improve this user experience, which is why the swap module was born. Of course, at that time we made the mistake of thinking that this black-and-white technology was unfeasible, but later UniSat and the Fractal network proved that its experience was good.

But people are talking more about UniSat swap, but this module is not exclusive to UniSat; any team can deploy the swap module and use tokens.

I remember that programmable modules were discussed at a Bitcoin summit in Taiwan in 2023. I think it would be very meaningful if they could solve the adaptability issue of Bitcoin, such as binding data to Bitcoin using UTXO.

I believe that ultimately programmable protocols will prevail in the market. Two years have passed, and we are still using the method of trading BRC20 tokens through NFT transactions, which is a poor experience. If you are a Solana degen trading on the Bitcoin network, you might immediately want to go back to Solana. We must adapt to the market, which is why I am interested in programmable modules.

However, for me, the current priority is to ensure the survival of BRC-20 assets. The programmable module and the "Single step transfer" we have been researching can help BRC-20 integrate better into other ecosystems, so that users do not have to "hang themselves on a single tree" with BRC20, making the created assets objects that need support, rather than the standard itself.

Host: Can the programmable module solve the interoperability issues between BRC-20 and other protocols like Runes? Or do we still need L2? What are your thoughts?

Domo: Currently, there are various solutions available, such as centralized cross-chain bridges, L1.5 layers, or those L2. Interestingly, in the Bitcoin space, everyone is making trust assumptions, questioning who we should trust, and so on. But if we approach this from an industry perspective, we should understand the needs of different people. For example, if you are a Bitcoin whale, there might only be a few protocols like Babylon that can meet your conditions.

But if you are a degen, you won't care about these things at all, because you are used to centralization; you are just here to look for Alpha. I don't know how this interoperability game will ultimately turn out, but I think it is still necessary.

Host: Do you think BRC-20 has more advantages than some other protocols that are being developed for programmability?

Domo: If BRC-20 does nothing for now, I think the most likely scenario is that some programmable protocols emerge and dominate the market, while BRC-20 will not be able to participate because it lacks interoperability. However, if BRC-20 takes the programmable route, then there is a chance to regain people's attention, but that does not mean it will definitely succeed.

Single Step Transfer of BRC-20

**Host:**As a builder, what issues do you hope the community will focus on solving?

Domo: I think many people only focus on the present and overlook the many interesting things happening in the Bitcoin ecosystem. For example, in a few months or even a year, those Bitcoin VM bridges could create huge profit opportunities similar to DeFi. If I were a builder, I would work towards that direction. Looking back at the early days of Ordinals, it was quite joyful to be part of this industry, where people respected each other and were full of optimism. I hope people can return to that state.

Host: You have mentioned "Single step transfer" multiple times. Is this a new concept that BRC-20 users are looking forward to?

Domo: Single-step transfers can abstract the wallet, solving the problem of the number of Bitcoin wallets. It will not only enhance the user experience but also make it easier for BRC20 to integrate with other systems than before. Many current cross-chain bridge designs remain overly complex for users, who are accustomed to sending UTXOs, with an experience akin to simple cross-chain bridge locking. We even plan to enable lightning channels, etc., but I don’t want to make any commitments just yet.